This is actually a great question and I would like to see responses from others who have experience in this area.

Also... i came on here today to ask diffuse thinners about hair styling products... i used to like to do my hair nicely but now gel and mousse just make me look thinner(hair)

Zix - why do you think diffuse thinners are easier to treat ? any regimen (zix ??) you want to suggest ?

Diffuse thinners are easier to treat because it takes fewer results to get the appearance of results If you have bald skin it is very hard to get regrowth and even if you do it is not likely to be thick regrowth. Whereas if you are thin and just get some regrowth, it is likely to make a dramatic improvement in appearance.

My pic here (with hot oiling (Gingley oil) just before washing): http://yfrog.com/eidscn0486yj

I am planning to give Revivogen a try.

I am skeptical what I have is not MPB. I have no body hair and very less facial hair. Maybe it has to do something with harmones.

Any other thoughts.

I agree with you 100%. Initially diffuse thinning does look alot better than MPB patterns. It seems like you just need a slight boost, whether it be gradual thickening or slight regrowth. However, I just turned 30 and have been thinning diffusely for about 11 years now. My sides are so thin now I even have to account for them when combing my hair. I know that if this continues I will have no choice but to shave. The weird thing is that my hair grows very fast. The healthier hair grows so fast that if i dont get my hair trimmed every two weeks it really looks bad. I just dont know what to do. I have extremely thick facial hair. Body hair is probably about average.

Is your case quite similar to that of mine ? including the top/back ? or just only the sides ?

That pic was taken with plenty of oil on my scalp...if I wash my hair, no one would believe I have hair loss..it covers up pretty nicely..no issues for now...just trying to increase the density...but couldn't get the right regimen yet...

anything working for you ? Minox seems to be a good bet for diffuse thinners...did you get your blood work done ? i posted in another thread about 'cheek swab test' to determine if we are genetically pre-disposed for hair loss...I thought its a good thing to do for we diffuse thinners, coz you never know (from the look of it) if we are suffering from genetic hair loss or something else..unfortunately, i didnt' get any response

Diffuse thinning on the sides?  Are you sure it's male pattern loss?  Can you post pictures?

Yes, my sides are thin too. "Are you sure its male pattern loss" ? - that's the million dollar question I have. I don't have an answer. Went for general body checkup, all is fine. How to 'confirm' its MPB or something else ? I wanted to take the 'cheek swab test', but dont know if its fool-proof or any other better cheaper alternative is available to determine the hair loss type.

Thoughts ?

You wouldn't want a cheek swab test for this.  That genetic test will just tell you if you have a couple of genes which have been associated with hair loss.  If it were me and I wanted a definitive answer I would go see a doctor and have them do a punch biopsy on a hair follicle on the side where the hair loss is and send it to a lab for analysis.  They can differentiate between some different conditions it might be if it's not typical hair loss.  Also a cheek swab if it comes back negative is not going to tell you what you do have.

Yes I am thinning all over my entire scalp. I first noticed thinning in traditional areas, however all areas seemed to thin gradually with the worst spot at the vertex. I had some blood work done with a script from my derm. He pretty much wrote in every test that may be associated with hairloss. Later his secretary called and told me nothing was out of the ordinary. I kinda wanted more discussion but he is a hair transplant surgeon so I guess he didnt care much. Id like to see a true specialist, except I have no clue where to find one. Or if any actually exist. I live real close to NYC so id think if we had any of these so called experts Id find one. Also, the loss seems to be genetic as my father went bald and in a diffuse pattern. He seemed to have more sides and back though at my age. His maybe went in more of an MPB pattern and then later he lost sides and back. My brother has diffuse thinning but only on top. He still shows no recession at 43 and his hair doesnt look like it has thinned in years. At this point he has much more hair than me and appears like he will make it at least through youth. I'm baffled by this type of thinning.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2128/dscn0483h.jpg http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9951/dscn0484k.jpg

How much does this Biopsy thing costs usually?

looks like Its quite expensive -about S$560/- here

some articles:

http://www.asiaone.com/Health/Women%2527s%2BMatters/Coiffure/Story/A1Story20100416-210695.html

http://singaporeshortstories.blogspot.com/2008/04/hair-loss.html

No punch biopsy isn't surgery.  The do a quick punch of a small circle of skin (probably 1-3mm wide).  It probably won't even require closing, if they did a very wide punch it might take one suture but I doubt that the last time I had one it didn't.  It probably is expensive, but if you have medical insurance it should be covered under that.  How you make sure it is covered is to go in and tell the doctor you are concerned your hair loss is caused by an underlying medical condition since it doesn't match the standard pattern loss (which yours doesn't).  If you are getting it done for concern about general health it should be covered.  If you just go in and say you want it to diagnose your male pattern loss they might not cover it then.  Your hair loss does not look like male pattern loss to me.  Even diffuse thinners usually thin on the top and not the sides and back. 

Where can you get such a biopsy done? Do you know of any hair specialists in the New York tri state area?

I'll look around here and see if I can get more details about it.

yeah, i have long felt mine is not a typical MPB. Something is amiss.

Any dermatologist should be able to perform a punch biopsy and send it off for analysis.  I'm not sure if a GP would do it or not.

check out their pricing !!...

Is this really that much to ask for. Sadly, I get better information from strangers on the internet than high paid professionals.

And, I am not sure how these docs keep themselves updated. Not many know about LLLT, atleast here. They may read just those medical journals. I think these hair loss specialist should atleast spend sometime on top hairloss forums on the internet, atleast listen to what people speak. Great inventions were made when people of different background, science and profession meet & exchange ideas leading to creativity explosion.

Well, it had happened to me here too. When I visited a GP, and asked him some (basic) hair loss related questions, he asked me if I am a 'medical practitioner' Docs expect us to be a little 'dumb'.

You have to realize MPB is the most common type of hair loss.  A case like this is probably less than one percent of patients with hair loss, so most docs will not have seen it.  They will just have seen MPB and maybe a case or two of alopecia areata.  As for how they can not be up to date, the field of dermatology is very large it does not include just hair but is mainly skin focused.  Having gone to several American Academy of Dermatology meetings, it is possible to keep up to date on what is going on in hair if that is your goal.  But if you are keeping up with the whole field, maybe you'll get one lecture on hair in if that there are tons of lectures to choose from and only so much time.  If you just go to one you better hope it is good.  Most hair lectures focus the majority of their time on male pattern loss or alopecia areata as those are the most common problems.  So I would say the main problem with treating this kind of hair loss, whatever it is is that it's rare so your chances of finding a doctor who's dealt with something similar is not good.  A lot of the better doctors are involved in research and don't do a lot of office work.

It is still possible this is male pattern loss just with an unusual presentation, who knows... one question to ask the next doctor you see would be 'do you know a doctor who is an expert in hair loss locally i can consult with?'

Speaking of family history, is this familial -- have other members of your family lost hair in the same pattern?

Your points all make sense. And yes, this can still be MPB and that is why I currently take proscar. Also, there is some hairloss in my family and I know where I inherited this from. My father has diffuse hairloss and so did my grandmother. My brother had diffuse loss but he is now in his fourties and never seemed to lose anything after his mid twenties. Also, he kept his hairline totally in place and does not seem to have any thinning in the sides and back. His diffuse loss is strictly on top kinda like a femaile pattern. I just add that my mothers family seems to have recession so I could have picked up that there. Although her father had some hair even into his late 70s. My brother is only a half brother but we share the same father and grandmother so that is most likely where i got the gene. One thing I would like to mention is that both my grandmother and father had diabetes and heart disease. I notice everyone with this type of hairloss in my family also seems to carry those genes. My fathers brother has almost perfect hair into his 60s and his son as well. His brother doenst seem to have heart disease or diabetes. I have been under tremendous stresss for several years. Alot becuase of the onset of early hairloss but also from my general nature. Even as a child I tended to become overerly stressed very easily. I do lift weights, however ive gone through long layoffs even for years at a time and never really noticed a difference in daily fallout. Im just at ends with this problem becuase if i i knew this was mpb then at least I know how to go about treating the problem. Im wondering if the blood work I had could at least indicate whether or not this is likely MPB. Are there any specific tests for DHT that can pinpoint MPB. I mean it could possibly be MPB and maybe the stress aggrevated things so that additional hair was lost. Who knows. Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

I am looking around here for derm that does biopsy.

If it were me I'd start using a good minoxidil formula ASAP - Dr. Klein's ProMox or one of the other formulas such as Dr. Lee's or Spectral DNC.  If it's diffuse loss and you get some results it can really improve the appearance.  Interesting that it runs in the family.  Testing DHT probably won't help most men do not have elevated DHT - it's the follicle's reaction to the DHT rather than an excessive amount.  If you had an excessive amount you would probably be losing on top for sure

What topicals do you use other than Minox ?

Care to post pics ?

Congrats Manooga!!  Yes please post pics if you can!